“Big changes in bunches” are coming for Apple TV’s Emmy-winning comedy, Ted Lasso, in its Season 4 finale on October 7. And when the credits roll on Season 4, Episode 10, if you’re anything like stars Tanya Reynolds and Abbie Hern, you’ll feel hopeful…

“Watching it, to me, weirdly felt like the beginning of an ending, more so than the beginning of this season,” Hern, who plays the Lady Greyhounds’ star striker Gemma Jay, told DECIDER over Zoom. “It feels like a beginning.”

The tease may come as a surprise to fans who are still reeling from the heart-wrenching end of Season 4’s penultimate episode, which followed the unexpected death of beloved Crown & Anchor pub owner Mae Green (Annette Badland) with a tribute card honoring the late Anthony Head, who played Rupert Manion. And Ted Lasso fans weren’t the only ones in disbelief after the big twist.

“When we found out that happened, I thought it was a joke,” Reynolds told DECIDER. “She is so beloved and not just Mae. Annette, too. She’s such an essential part of Ted Lasso,” Hern added. “I’m so glad that they were able to honor her in Episode 9, giving her that moment that was so monumental to her, the pregame speech to the team that she lived for.”

Though the stars agree that the major death was “absolutely devastating,” Reynolds promises, “there are some really beautiful scenes in Episode 10 that honor [Mae],” among other key developments.

Ahead of Ted Lasso‘s Season 4 finale, Reynolds and Hern spoke with DECIDER about what to expect from Episode 10, Alice and Gemma’s evolution, Episode 8’s moving panic attack scene, their hopes for Season 5, and more.

DECIDER: Gemma and Alice have come such a long way this season, with major growth in Episode 8 after Gemma’s injury. What was most important for you to play when evolving that central dynamic these last few episodes?

TANYA REYNOLDS: For Alice, I wanted to try and unravel her complicated feelings about Gemma in regard to how Gemma is a reflection of what Alice doesn’t have. And I think this speech that Alice gives, when she finally opens up about how she feels about the fact that Gemma has so much potential, and she has what Alice wants, what she would give for her bad knee, I wanted to get to the bottom and try to play Alice working through those feelings. She isn’t over her own injury and she’s still grieving her career. And what happens to Gemma brings that all back.

What does Alice’s belief in Gemma mean to her, and what do those two big decisions — to not quit football, and then to take the bench to further avoid injury in Episode 9 — say about how Gemma views and respects Alice? 

ABBIE HERN: I think when Gemma first joins Richmond, it was a risk, because of her relationship with Alice. She really didn’t know how it was going to go down. And then they found a safe spot in Episode 6 on the boat. They established where they were at, but then it tipped up a little bit again at the end of that episode. So I think until Episode 8, it’s not really known to Gemma why Alice wants her on the team specifically — not just because they needed a good striker, but specifically because Alice has faith in her career. And in Episode 9, when she stops her from going back on the pitch, Gemma sees she really does have her career first in her mind. It’s a huge priority. And Gemma feels super safe in that. It’s probably the main reason that she feels safe enough to stay playing football and committing to football in the way that she does at the end of it. 

Before we dive into Episode 9, I want to ask about that moving scene in Episode 8 where Ted sits beside Alice as she’s having a panic attack and they decompress together. Tanya, what was it like filming that emotional scene with Jason and playing a role in the way the show depicts anxiety and approaches mental health? 

REYNOLDS: That was one of the things that I loved about the show when I first watched it. And as a very anxious person myself, who is no stranger to the old panic attack, it was really important to me for that scene to feel as authentic as possible. And I love the way that it was written, and I love the way that Erica [Dunton, director] shot it, and the way it all turned out. It was great, because it’s such a supportive set. Everyone was really lovely and supportive, which was the best. I think we actually did a couple of different versions of it, because it was scripted, but a lot of it we were just improvising a bit, and we did a couple of different takes. There was a take where Ted put his arm around her. But [the final cut] was by far the best one. It just felt right, because I think it was everything that Alice needed. Just for someone to be there, unjudgmental. Because for her, it’s just the worst thing in the world to be caught crying at work, to be seen as vulnerable, in a really exposing way. And when you’re having a panic attack like that, you can’t just stop it. There’s no off switch. So I think it was mortifying for her. And I think Ted deals with it in the best possible way. It was a really beautiful scene, and I’m really happy that we got to do it. 

Speaking of emotional scenes, Episode 409 ends with Mae’s death. She’s such a beloved character, and her elevated presence and love of the women’s team were some of my favorite parts of Season 4. What were your reactions when you learned that big twist? And what will it mean for the show and the team moving forward? Can we expect to see her honored some way in the finale? 

HERN: All I can say is, like you said, she is so beloved and not just Mae. Annette, too. She’s such an essential part of Ted Lasso. 

REYNOLDS: When we found out that happened, I thought it was a joke. 

I thought it was a fake-out, too. And then when it was immediately followed by Anthony Head’s tribute card, and I was like, “Oh…wait.”

HERN: Yeah, it’s real. But I’m so glad that they were able to honor her in Episode 9, giving her that moment that was so monumental to her, the pregame speech to the team that she lived for. That being one of the final things that she does is really beautiful. 

REYNOLDS: I agree, and it’s absolutely devastating, but there are some really beautiful scenes in Episode 10 that honor her. 

In Episode 9, we also officially learn that Zelda is the one who’s buying all the Richmond shares. How do you think the team will take a betrayal like that from this woman they trusted? What can you share about the future that could set up? 

HERN : It’s a shame to be let down by a woman that you thought was supporting you, regardless. But why do I just feel like? Boots would be like, “Hold it. Hold it. Were we not thinking this all along?” I think the team have always had [suspicions].

REYNOLDS: Ever since the boat party and meeting her horrible mate. I don’t think they’ll be surprised. 

On the press site, the finale is called “The Departing Lass.” The description is, “Big changes in bunches.” And it’s written by Jason Sudeikis and Brendan Hunt, so you know it’s going to be big. Is there anything else you can tease for us? 

HERN: Watching it, to me, weirdly felt like the beginning of an ending, more so than the beginning of this season, it feels like a beginning. I can’t say anything more than that. 

REYNOLDS: That was really nice. I’m gonna just second that. 

Jason has said he has another three-season arc in mind. Have there been any conversations about what happens beyond the finale? Do you maybe have a larger sense of where your character arcs could go? 

REYNOLDS: We have no idea. There’s obviously so much potential, so many possibilities…

If there is a Season 5, what’s something you’d like to explore for your characters?

REYNOLDS: We’d be so interested in a flashback to our Arsenal days. 

HERN: What did you do? 

Oh, we have to do it now. It’s out there.

REYNOLDS: We can get to the bottom of the beef. But also, I saw a clip of you guys playing football, and you all look so cool, and I feel jealous that I don’t get to play football. I’m grateful I don’t get to play football, because if I did, it would be horrendous and I would be a laughing stock, but you did all look very cool, so I’m like maybe…

HERN: I want to see Alice in a kit, though. Just for a minute.

REYNOLDS: Yeah, so I could put one shot of Alice kicking the ball. Even if it has to be my head CGI’d onto someone else’s body. [Laughs]

Speaking of Gemma and Alice’s history, have you seen fans shipping a slow burn between them? Do you have any thoughts on that, or see the vision?

REYNOLDS: I have a friend who is on TikTok, and she’ll send me the odd fan video of Gemma and Alice.

HERN: Someone send me a full fan fic. 

REYNOLDS: Did they now?

HERN: Detailed. 12 chapters.

REYNOLDS: Oh my god, send it to me.

HERN: I will. I’ll find it and send it to you after this. I mean, it’s buzzy, isn’t it? But I don’t think Gemma and Alice know why it’s buzzy. 

REYNOLDS: I think it’s complicated. I would agree that I think Alice has complicated feelings that maybe she’s not even aware of what they are.

HERN: Yeah, same with Gemma.

We did get that great scene of Alice and her partner. And we got to meet Gemma’s hilarious mom and learned her family is wealthy. Did those glimpses into their personal lives reveal anything deeper about your characters or surprise you at all?

HERN: It explains our relationship a lot, actually, both of those things that you just mentioned. Alice being in a relationship, but having any kind [of feelings] — platonic or romantic — but these really conflicting, weird responses to Gemma. And also finding out that Gemma is rich when we know that Alice is from a humble background. I felt like it answered a bit about what the disconnect is there.

REYNOLDS: Yeah, I think Alice has probably always harbored a bit of resentment towards Gemma for many reasons. And I think seeing her cushy little living room probably now added to that a little bit. And seeing Camille, Alice’s partner, I was really thrilled with that scene, because it was nice to see another side of Alice. It was like, “Oh, this is what she’s really like. This is what she’s like at home.” To know that she has this really warm and encouraging opposite presence at home, building her up every day and being a warm cuddle at night when she gets home, I thought it was a really nice insight into her. And it made her a lot more human, I thought. 

Absolutely. Looking back on Season 4, Alice, you’re working closely with Jason and Brendan; Abbie, you’re with the team. Was there a scene in particular you remember really struggling not to break in? 

REYNOLDS: I mean, literally every single thing [with Jason and Brendan] I would be in pieces. But since Episode 8 was released last week, that scene with Laura Haddock, who plays Dr. Beaumont, where the three of us are in the hospital at the end of the episode and Alice says, “I’m just her coach, Alice Chilton,” and Dr. Beaumont’s like, “The great Alice Chilton.”

Oh yes, it was such a touching moment…

REYNOLDS: It took us so long to get to the end of that scene. She had to just respond, “The great Alice Chilton.” And for some reason, every take, she was like, “The great Alice Johnson,” and she didn’t know she was doing it. And it was so funny. And then she couldn’t say “Dr. Strudwick”; she kept saying “Dr. Stredwick,” and the three of us were in pieces, and it was lunchtime, and we were running over because I couldn’t get through the scene. I’ve never laughed more in my life. Oh my god. [Laughs]

HERN: We were having way too much fun. Sometimes in scenes like that, when you know the people around you are like, “Okay, you have to get it together,” we’re all having so much fun every time it goes wrong. 

REYNOLDS: Watching that back, I can’t believe we got it. Oh my gosh. I would love to see the blooper reel of that. [Laughs]

Before we wrap, having embodied these characters for a full season and seen the warm reception the women’s team has gotten, I wanted to check in and see if those feelings of imposter syndrome and fear that you spoke of when joining the show had evolved at all?

HERN: No, I absolutely still feel like an impostor. Now when people are like, “Oh my god, do you play Gemma? I’m like, “Yeah. Is that okay?! I’m sorry. I’m really sorry.” [Laughs]

REYNOLDS: Maybe it’s because my exposure has been quite limited, but I felt like a really warm [reception]. I really thought people were gonna hate me, were gonna hate Alice. And I’m very pleasantly surprised to feel a real warmth for her, which I’m chuffed about. 

This interview was edited for length and clarity.

Ted Lasso‘s Season 4 finale premieres Wednesday, October 7 on Apple TV.