Ron Howard says one of the biggest lessons he learned on The Shootist came from watching John Wayne and director Don Siegel clash behind the scenes.

Speaking on Ben Mankiewicz‘s Talking Pictures podcast, the Oscar-winning filmmaker reflected on making the 1976 Western, which marked Wayne’s final film, and recalled witnessing the pair’s ongoing feud while soaking up as much filmmaking knowledge as he could.

Howard also had plenty of praise for the finished film, calling Siegel “a very strong director” and saying he “really went to school” on the filmmaker during production.

“It’s paced slowly, deliberately, but it builds beautifully. The acting is good,” Howard reflected. “Don Siegel was a very strong director. I really went to school on Don Siegel there. That was just great, and [I] learned so much from him.”

Still, Howard admitted some of his biggest takeaways came from watching the relationship between Siegel and Wayne unravel, recalling that the two “were feuding” and “did not get along.”

Despite the friction, Howard managed to stay on good terms with both men. While he often peppered Siegel with questions about filmmaking, he also formed an unexpected bond with Wayne after asking if he’d like to rehearse between takes.

“I also had the guts to sort of say, ‘Hey, do you want to run lines?’ No one really would talk to him in between setups. It was John Wayne. It was Duke,” Howard shared. “He had a couple of people, a guy he would play chess with, who was the still photographer who had worked with him on a lot of films, but it was a very closed little bubble that he was operating in.”

Wayne agreed, and the pair regularly rehearsed their scenes together.

“He was perfectly friendly to me, and he said, ‘Yeah, I’d like to run lines,’” he continued. “We had a lot of scenes together, heavy dialogue, and it was very interesting to see him take a scene and shape it into a John Wayne performance in the most positive ways.”

Those conversations often turned to Wayne’s frustrations with Siegel. Howard recalled the director once telling him that after a production reaches a certain point, the filmmaker is the one who becomes expendable if tensions with the star boil over.

“Siegel told me at a certain point, he said, ‘Hey, look, after about two weeks, if you’re the director and it’s you or the star, you’re gone. They can’t afford to go back and reshoot. I don’t care how much they love what you’re doing. You’re gone. And I like this script, and I like this movie, and I’m going to write it out,’” Howard shared. “I think John Wayne felt the same way.”

Looking back, Howard believes the conflict lingered longer than it needed to, saying there was “a better way to deal with even superstars than this.” The experience ultimately shaped the way he runs his own sets today.

“I felt that the key was that a lot of things were allowed to fester for a long period of time. The strategy that I’ve followed over the years is that when there’s a difference of opinion, go right into it,” he explained. “You don’t have to make it a fight, but you’re there to achieve something together and talk it through. Don’t let it become something that’s petty and emotional when, in fact, it’s a creative concern or a neurotic concern.”

Howard added that simply addressing insecurities head-on often diffuses them.

“If you shine a bright light on a neurotic concern, most people, even the most neurotic of them, say, ‘Oh yeah, I guess I was a little insecure about that.’”

He also remembered one moment that illustrated just how personal the feud had become. While walking to set, Wayne was carrying a copy of the Carson City newspaper and was visibly upset over a quote Siegel had given to the publication.

“I’m walking to the set with John Wayne, and he’s holding the Carson City newspaper. And he says, ‘Why the f— did he have to say that?’” Howard recalled. “And I said, ‘What?’ The quote was from Siegel. ‘You know, they say, John Wayne eats directors for breakfast. If he takes a bite out of me, he’s going to get indigestion.’ It upset Duke, and it just got worse.”

Even so, Howard said he walked away with lasting respect for Siegel’s work, despite witnessing the pair “really at loggerheads” on some days.

“Siegel made a really good film, and I learned a lot from him,” he said, “but on the other hand, there were some days where he and John Wayne were really at loggerheads.”